Who Wants To Claim

you got a deal SC.

im not out to make enemies or to E fight or be an E thug, and i will never ever deny the respect you deserve for doing what you have, or anyone else. remember, i have tried to help you out before when you wanted imput on your 4t65 swap you were planning. even though you didnt agree with what i was saying, i tried to be respectfull of what you were doing because you were "thinking outside the box" and THAT i do respect.

and as long as we have a compareable track to compare with, which we do, i can set aside what has been said for some friendly competion.

with that being said, what are your goals for the Topeka track this season?

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 11:17 AM
you got a deal SC.

im not out to make enemies or to E fight or be an E thug, and i will never ever deny the respect you deserve for doing what you have, or anyone else. remember, i have tried to help you out before when you wanted imput on your 4t65 swap you were planning. even though you didnt agree with what i was saying, i tried to be respectfull of what you were doing because you were "thinking outside the box" and THAT i do respect.

and as long as we have a compareable track to compare with, which we do, i can set aside what has been said for some friendly competion.

with that being said, what are your goals for the Topeka track this season?

Quoted post

I AM PLANNING ON 13.8'S HERE AT 6000 FT AND MID TO LOW 13'S AT TOPEKA BUT THAT WILL NOT BE UNTIL OCTOBER OR SO

^^^ oopps cap locks i hate them

im hoping for low 13's out of the gate in the next few weeks depending on how some family things pan out.

by october, im hoping to be in the 12's at least, if not low 12's.

ive done quite a bit mods since the 14.0 run and fixed a lot of other issues i was having.

i just have to get a tranny that will hold the power and then take it to the dyno and tune it up. and i am hoping to pull at least 325 wheel hp out of it and around 400 wtq. hopefully!


and like i said in some other posts before (which i think are gone now), i REALLY think you should be able to pull better than 13's from your setup (in topeka). i honestly think if you get the right conditions i think you could pull 12's too (get that speed limiter removed).

i would love to get 12's but it just is not realistic i don't have the internals for it i am more than happy will mid to low thirteens i would be even happier if it can be done here at alt but i am not getting my hopes up.

i don't know we will see what happens. i need to get that 65e in which is still in the process.

what kind of 60' times did you get the last time out?

lower 60's own E.T.'s lol. just shaving a couple tenths off yoru 60's will yeild ~.5 from the E.T.

im really hoping my 4000 stall torque converter does do the trick for the 60's.

i pulled a 2.4 60' last time and im hoping for a 2.0 60' this season (if not better).

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 01:59 PM
what kind of 60' times did you get the last time out?

lower 60's own E.T.'s lol. just shaving a couple tenths off yoru 60's will yeild ~.5 from the E.T.

im really hoping my 4000 stall torque converter does do the trick for the 60's.

i pulled a 2.4 60' last time and im hoping for a 2.0 60' this season (if not better).

Quoted post

I know in rwd cars, a stall will make a huge differance in the 60' with good tires. I would hope you could drop below 2 with that high a stall.

[SilverBullet256]

opc1: :new_all_coholic:

[springs fastest alero]

(reply to germ's post on page 2)


my setup and SC's were pretty much one and the same. his intercooler is the exact one that was on my car. we just took it further.
as far as mods go. there were many things on my car that were taken further than the "production pieces" I sold. I'm sorry but I'd be crazy to sell my lowers for 175 if I put the same amount of time I did in to my own.
think of the one I sold as a stage one and the one for me as a stage 4. I spent over 12 hrs on my lower just on port work. Now its at the place that did my heads and he is taking it further. I had one set of heads done for a customer and they had larger intake valves as well as a host of comp cams valve train components.
Those heads were flowed and so was the set going on my engine. the numbers do not match and my numbers will not be released.
As far as internals go, yes you can get forged pistons easily, but without knowing my specs you cant get the same ones I have, my rods are forged but without knowing what line they are and from who, you cant get the same ones. Also my motor is stroked 10mm over and the block is bored a little as well. Yes with some resurch I'm sure you could copy that. As for the oil pump mine is upgraded and they are readily available.

I'll tell you what mods are on my car but I'm not going to give all the specs of everything. I put lots of time and resurch into this project I'm not going to hand over all of my findings to just anyone. SC told you all his mods and there is nothing secret with what mods are on the car. but we are not going to go down the hundreds of dyno pulls we've done between the two cars and tell you what tunning was done to get what numbers, 1) that would take up pages, 2) not many would have a clue what we were talking about, 3) we took the time to fine tune it, only way you will get there is by spending some time yourself. As for the pulley size comment, if sc wants to release that he can. mostly I didnt because I don't want all the "your crazy, thats spinning it too fast, etc"

bottom line is, you could build an engine with like parts but duplicating my results with out knowing every last spec of everything would be next to impossible. this is why our results vary from the rest.
On uncorrected dyno numbers... I was curious to what my car was doing up here on the day I dynoed. I had him show me the raw results of my 272 whp run, in denver the car was making a little over 220 whp on that day. this was impressive to me because it matched the corrected numbers of hp's turbo kit on low boost.

the reason we want corrected numbers used is because it puts us the same as everyone else, So that way you dont get the, "you have all those mods and thats all that car will do" remarks. SC got fed up with it so he went to a lower elevation track to prove what the car could do. Personally I'm just building a car that will beat all the sealevel times up here. I live up here not down there. I want my car to be impressive to the rest of the country at this altitude and make them sick if I take it to a lower elevation.

on the dyno subect, one of my friends was a tech for superflow and his job was calibrating dynos and flow benches. so I've learned much from him about that.
they run a correction based on barometric pressure, temp, etc. this is so the results are more stable. he told me that its much easier to tune with corrected numbers than uncorrected because it gives you ideal results useable for every day. also so you can compare results from one day to the next. other wise temp outside, baro of the day and all that come into play. you could gain or loose 5 hp or more just based on the time of day. this would make it really hard to see if you gained or lost from any mods or tunning done. raw numbers are just for seeing exactly what you make at that time, temp, geographical location, and on that dyno. They are horrible for tunning on.

on the eaton subject, you siad the 62 was not capable of the power we have got out of it and even posted links to eatons site. I dont recall you bringing up efficency untill now.
I know its not efficent and what we have pushed it to. (why do you think I dropped it?) But we have been able to get the desired power for his car out of it.
your right about the cobalt, it uses a gen 5 which is susposed to flow better. Not sure on the exact differences though.
and the 62 on the series 1 supercharged 3800 was also different it was a gen 3. the one my friend had didnt even have coated rotors.
the gen4 (used in the production model of the E/M kit) is said to be more efficent than the gen3.

his 13.8 slip was in kansas. grandamgt.com does not accept altitude corrections even though its good enough for nhra. So we dont post corrected times

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 06:58 AM



by the way, by manipulating the correction factor on dyno's is how manufactures can claim 20hp from a cold air intake and be "dyno proven"

might want to read up on that too.

Quoted post

most dynos on products that make claims like that are by independant "testors"
they have to make that much power on at least one of the intkaes the offer or they can be busted for false advertising. granted this wont stop some companies from making stupid claims.
we all know your not going to see 15 hp from a drop in air filter on our car.
on a vette however.... lets just say their stock intakes have much room for improvement. minor mods to a ZO6 will yeild rather large increases in hp and track times. I've seen this personally.

springs....

first of all, i dont want your specs nor ever asked for them nor do i plan to copy your mods nor do i care what type of rod or piston or whatever else you've done or doing.

again, i never questioned YOU, so please dont think i am trying to drill you for info. i dont want your info, just the fact that you say thats what your doing is fine, keep your research and development, ive got my own R&D as well.

and just as an FYI, i have mentioned the efficancy range MANY times before that post you read. however many of my posts that actually delt with the topic at hand were deleted along with a few others. so yea, i have mentioned the efficiancy of that S/C before.

and as i said before, i am glad you guys are taking the "game" to a new level, this is what this community needs, competition.


and about the dyno's, i know what your saying about tuning and such, but in all honesty, who really has the type of cash flow to spend it on hundreds of dyno pulls? me personally, i rent the dyno for an hour or two and do my tuning in one day and it always seems to work out ok for me and everyone else i know that dyno tunes.

and how many people you know REALLY go to a dyno after they add a mod? hell, i dont. maybe 1 in 1000 people. so when dyno results are posted for a particular product, i really dont pay attention to the exact HP gains because they are always skewed. a dyno in March is not the same as a dyno in July. i really never pay attention to dyno #'s, or i should say i dont relay solely on dyno #'s.

running at the track is the proof in the pudding, not a dyno.

[bu01]

nightracer from n-body.net and malibuclub.ca is saying that he has 500+ fwhp on c16 and about 450 on premium. he is cool but he hesnt posted a dyno sheet, time slips and he refuses to show a p[ic of his engine bay but i will see if i can get him to post a dyno sheet

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 7 2005, 05:58 AM
springs....

first of all, i dont want your specs nor ever asked for them nor do i plan to copy your mods nor do i care what type of rod or piston or whatever else you've done or doing.

again, i never questioned YOU, so please dont think i am trying to drill you for info. i dont want your info, just the fact that you say thats what your doing is fine, keep your research and development, ive got my own R&D as well.

and just as an FYI, i have mentioned the efficancy range MANY times before that post you read. however many of my posts that actually delt with the topic at hand were deleted along with a few others. so yea, i have mentioned the efficiancy of that S/C before.

and as i said before, i am glad you guys are taking the "game" to a new level, this is what this community needs, competition.


and about the dyno's, i know what your saying about tuning and such, but in all honesty, who really has the type of cash flow to spend it on hundreds of dyno pulls? me personally, i rent the dyno for an hour or two and do my tuning in one day and it always seems to work out ok for me and everyone else i know that dyno tunes.

and how many people you know REALLY go to a dyno after they add a mod? hell, i dont. maybe 1 in 1000 people. so when dyno results are posted for a particular product, i really dont pay attention to the exact HP gains because they are always skewed. a dyno in March is not the same as a dyno in July. i really never pay attention to dyno #'s, or i should say i dont relay solely on dyno #'s.

running at the track is the proof in the pudding, not a dyno.

Quoted post

first glad you dont want my specs because you would never get them anyway.

second you questioned SC's setup which happens to be exactly what I used to run before my new project so questioning him is questioning what i did. its one and the same. he has just taken it further than i did.

on the dyno subject... owning a business i can write off the dynos as R&D. and with the tunning we did and hr just isnt enough time so we split a whole day.
if you get a few cars to do this it cost about what an hr will and gives you way more time.

not all cars are built for the quarter mile

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by bu01@Apr 9 2005, 08:43 PM
nightracer from n-body.net and malibuclub.ca is saying that he has 500+ fwhp on c16 and about 450 on premium. he is cool but he hesnt posted a dyno sheet, time slips and he refuses to show a p[ic of his engine bay but i will see if i can get him to post a dyno sheet

Quoted post

id have to call bs on this one

Originally posted by springs fastest alero+Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(springs fastest alero @ Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>first glad you dont want my specs because you would never get them anyway.

Quoted post

[/b]

you've mentioned before that you wont release your info, fine, i said that i didnt want it.

no need to get sh*tty about it

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM
second you questioned SC's setup which happens to be exactly what I used to run before my new project so questioning him is questioning what i did. its one and the same. he has just taken it further than i did.

Quoted post

i questioned his claimed HP #'s, which i was right about, so again, i didnt question your setup and if you would have claimed 300 whp with the same stuff, i would have questioned you too.

<!--QuoteBegin-springs fastest alero@Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM
on the dyno subject... owning a business i can write off the dynos as R&D. and with the tunning we did and hr just isnt enough time so we split a whole day.
if you get a few cars to do this it cost about what an hr will and gives you way more time.

not all cars are built for the quarter mile

Quoted post

[/quote]


glad to know that your in the 1% of people on the internet that has a business and can write that stuff off.

i wish that you would see that i am not directing anything towards you personally, and i wish that you would stop taking it so literal.






and personally, i dont see how a few people can go in together and rent a dyno for a full day (8 hrs), which is roughly around $1200 plus extra if you want wideband O2 and/or boost reference. so 1200 / 4 people = 300 each plus 50 for WBO2 and 50 for boost reference = 400 for 2 hours worth of dyno time which includes your hook up time and unhook time, so roughly 1.5 hours for 400.

normally, i schedule my appointment for 1 hour of dyno time ($75 plus WBO2) for $100 and i get 1 hour of DYNO time, there is no hook up time loss.

in order to make it worth someones time to do a dyno day, there must be a LOT of cars to pitch in, then that means there is quite a bit of time used for hooking up and unhooking each car.

for most people, renting a dyno for a day will not work out for TUNING, but just to get an idea of your HP, yea, a dyno day is great, but only if you dont want to do squat for tuning.

and that is only for my area, not sure what shops charge up there in colorado.

and i dont see how you cant tune a car in an hour. you can easily make 7-20 pulls within an hour, flashing the PCM takes 45 seconds to do.

so i dont see any relivance to sitting your car on a dyno for 3 hours when you dont need to IMO

[springs fastest alero]

I wasn't getting poopty about it, just being straight forward like you.
As for the dyno day it didnt even cost us half that and we had wide band on all pulls. The shop we went to cuts a deal for the day. buying like 4 hrs for 2 cars would cost more than getting the whole day. and that way we had the extra time if needed.
as for how long we took.. well we try several combos for the best power with a safe air fuel. also its nice to not rush and be able to play arround a little.