3400 W/ Manual Trans - Page 2

BlackJack · 03-24-2006, 06:21 PM

hahahah, man (or woman) as the case may be....that's how advancements are made, you strive to achieve what other narrowminded people laugh at or say can't be done.

That's why germ has taken the 3400 to 15psi when everybody said you can't go past 12. And mysteriously, his transmission held when it was supposed to go boom. You forget, alot of people have blown their stuff up because they dont know how to tune, or make stupid mistakes with mechanicals.

P.S. - Laughing is only authorized if you have some concept of what you're talking about, which disqualifies you. Sorry to be rude, but I think you asked for it here.

kwhauck · 03-25-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJack@Mar 24 2006, 05:21 PM
hahahah, man (or woman) as the case may be....that's how advancements are made, you strive to achieve what other narrowminded people laugh at or say can't be done.

That's why germ has taken the 3400 to 15psi when everybody said you can't go past 12. And mysteriously, his transmission held when it was supposed to go boom. You forget, alot of people have blown their stuff up because they dont know how to tune, or make stupid mistakes with mechanicals.

P.S. - Laughing is only authorized if you have some concept of what you're talking about, which disqualifies you. Sorry to be rude, but I think you asked for it here.

Quoted post

i'm not saying it can't be done, I just won't believe it until I see it with my own eyes

i never said the 3400 couldn't be taken past 12, I have personally seen Mike (sc/alero) push his setup for months at 15psi

and yes, most people blow up their stuff because they don't know how to tune, the alero block will take 400hp fine, the tranny has always been the weak point

and I asked for it? maybe, thats ok though most people that know me would say i'm an opinionated ahoe

good luck with your build though, i'll be right with you with my twincharged 65hd setup...... :heehee:

BlackJack · 03-25-2006, 04:14 PM

it would be very nice to see the build progress on it. Best of luck to you. (see? you can think someone is full of poop and still be polite.)

springs fastest alero · 03-26-2006, 04:41 PM

Tejohnson from grand am gt has done extensive work to the 45 and is still breaking things including the limited slip diff.
honestly if your pushing SERIOUS power the 45 is a waste of time
the 65 has been built to 1300 hp and 7 second quarter miles. for the weight and cost difference its easier to go with something that has been proven and was not designed as a throw away transmission (there is a reason the 45 does not has a dip stick) the connections for kwhauck to get the swap done are there. not to mention for the previous research we did the pinouts on the wiring are the same from the people we have talked to. GM likes to keep things simple. yes some values will have to be changed for shift points etc but nothing major when you have the software to make such changes. so it comes down to custom axles which will not cost anywhere near 400-500. and some subframe work which is also not an issue when you have a spare to play with and a few fabrication tools.

I can have custom axles made for about 200. (hade them done for a GTP swap on a 98 Grand am) it really wont cost as much as you think and getting a 65 to hold the power will be way easier and cheaper than trying to beef up the 45.

springs fastest alero · 03-26-2006, 04:49 PM

and to take the thread back
as for doing a manual
the g6 trans was not out yet when I started my project. I'm sure it will fit but they are expensive and hard to come by.
my base trans was 250 to my door and will hold what most will throw at it
as for my goals some work had to be done and I have about 2500 in the gearbox not counting the stage 4 clutch. however it would take some work to break it now.
you could say I went overkill but my whole project is becoming that.
as for the computer. dhp said they could tune for a manual but with the direction I'm taking with this car the stock computer was going to hold me back
so I chose the path of a stand alone engine control (electromotive TEC3) not the easiest way and definitely not the cheapest but in the long run it will be better for me.

anyway the average person could prolly pull off the swap for as cheap as 1,000 if you have connections and do your own work. and the price can go up from there depending on what you have done for you.
but overall its not near as hard as some may think.
my reason for doing it was simple. after converted its cheaper to replace parts on a manual. then of course the more fun to drive and all that comes into play.

BlackJack · 03-26-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Mar 26 2006, 03:41 PM
the 65 has been built to 1300 hp and 7 second quarter miles.

I can have custom axles made for about 200. (hade them done for a GTP swap on a 98 Grand am) it really wont cost as much as you think and getting a 65 to hold the power will be way easier and cheaper than trying to beef up the 45.

Quoted post

point one: not on an average person's budget. True if you have unlimited resources, such as GM's racing team.

point two: I'll be contacting you shortly to see if I can have some made through you then, cuz most people I've talked to have quoted way higher.

That combined with the other expenses of the swap is what's swaying most people away from it.

SweetNLow · 03-26-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJack@Mar 23 2006, 07:24 PM
yes, and that's depending on your driving habits. If you drive like every stoplight is a staging tree, then ANY transmission is gonna cave in.

Quoted post

haha u mustve seen me drive befor..........

springs fastest alero · 03-26-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJack@Mar 26 2006, 03:42 PM

point one: not on an average person's budget. True if you have unlimited resources, such as GM's racing team.

point two: I'll be contacting you shortly to see if I can have some made through you then, cuz most people I've talked to have quoted way higher.

That combined with the other expenses of the swap is what's swaying most people away from it.

Quoted post

point one is that it is capable of that kind of power

building a 45 will cost money too.
if you want to go fast you have to pay to play.

and the average person doesnt build and race an alero.
also slp offered a built 65 for like 2400 at one time rated at 450 or so.
many other grand prix performance parts sites still offer upgraded transmissions at about what it would cost to beef up a 45. also gm puts out a manual on the 65 on how to beef it up for different power levels
they did the resurch for you and show you exactly what they did.

send core axles off the alero and buildible axles off a gtp and I can get them built to fit the alero. the cores are becoming readily available in the junk yard fairly cheap.

BlackJack · 03-26-2006, 09:57 PM

John, I have to call bullpoop on this one. Since it's so easy to do, obviously that's why everyone is doing it. Especially since everyone's 3400 boosted limitations have been the transmission...

Something doesn't jive here. Show me one example of someone that has made it work so far. Yeah, I know, alot of people have messed with attempting it, but no go so far as I have seen.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about a daily driver, not a full on drag car. I could do that one easily. I want to see what can be done for the average person.

tejohnson · 03-27-2006, 01:29 AM

yeah yeah yeah....

Ok, so I have pushed the limits of the 45e. And I will continue to do so because I do actually have a glimmer of hope. From the latest job, it was not because I "had" to, it was because I "wanted" to. 2nd gear was worn beyond what we preferred, so we are taking the 45 to a little bit of a new level for the 1-2 shift. I intend to share more information soon, but I like to actually test before I speak towards something being fact. So far, the fact is the 45e can handle a lot with a pretty minor rebuild. Not everybody has bragging rights to 345 torque to the wheels with a 45e

I have no clue what I will be pushing this season, but I feel the 45e will be able to handle it. Further, I even intend to do yet another inspection of the internal components after the fact. In short, time will tell.

Otherwise, folks can move forward on something that has already be done. I have no issues with that, what so ever. However, if we can support what we are given, why choose a harder path?

For updates, see the following to track the latest rebuild:

http://groomlakelabs.com/?q=gallery&g2_vie...&g2_itemId=1853

03-27-2006, 06:29 PM

I hafta agree with tejohnson on this one. He's the only one that has actually done anything with the 45e.

I'm debating about a 65 swap myself, but am keeping a keen eye on what todd is doing, as it may sway my decision (I'm no where near the power he is running).

springs fastest alero · 03-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackJack@Mar 26 2006, 07:57 PM
John, I have to call bullpoop on this one.Â;-) Since it's so easy to do, obviously that's why everyone is doing it.Â;-) Especially since everyone's 3400 boosted limitations have been the transmission...

Something doesn't jive here.Â;-) Show me one example of someone that has made it work so far.Â;-) Yeah, I know, alot of people have messed with attempting it, but no go so far as I have seen.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about a daily driver, not a full on drag car.Â;-) I could do that one easily.Â;-) I want to see what can be done for the average person.

Quoted post

actually the drag car is harder than a daily driver due to tuning, the amount of power and the fact the car is beat on all the time.

anyway call bs on what ever you want.
the swap will be done and will be done for a reasonable price.
why is it not done yet?
well lets see... how many are seriously pushing the limits of the n-body
Id say a handful at best are really pushing them and each have chosen their own path.
I looked at the 65 before any parts were even available for the 45.
but honestly I didn't want an automatic in my car. so I stopped R&D on the 65 and turned towards the manual (which if you have forgotten is what this thread is about)
Quite honestly if people did some R&D and found out that it is lots easier than most think then maybe more would do it. but like I said most have chosen their own path and want to try their own things

tejohnson · 03-27-2006, 11:25 PM

I like what your doing John, and the thing is, you are actually "doing" it, which I fully respect. Thing is, with the 45e, not many at all have actually done some research and "acted" on beefing it up. Further, hardly anyone at all has moved forward to try something new, tear it down to eval, and go at it again. That is all I'm trying to accomplish

springs fastest alero · 03-28-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tejohnson@Mar 27 2006, 09:25 PM
I like what your doing John, and the thing is, you are actually "doing" it, which I fully respect. Thing is, with the 45e, not many at all have actually done some research and "acted" on beefing it up. Further, hardly anyone at all has moved forward to try something new, tear it down to eval, and go at it again. That is all I'm trying to accomplish

Quoted post

I hear ya and i know the trans is capable of more than most give it credit for
after all my engine went before the trans
my trans is now in sc alero's car still being beat up on and holding strong

i'd say my major set back with the 45 is the lack of options. you have proved it can hold its own though. I'd still like to see quafe make a limited slip unit for it

tejohnson · 03-28-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Mar 28 2006, 02:28 AM
I'd still like to see quafe make a limited slip unit for it

Quoted post

I think someone was having one made, just not sure of the status...

kwhauck · 03-28-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Mar 28 2006, 12:28 AM
my trans is now in sc alero's car still being beat up on and holding strong

Quoted post

aheemmm.........kwhauck's car...... :heehee: :heehee:

springs fastest alero · 03-29-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kwhauck+Mar 28 2006, 05:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kwhauck @ Mar 28 2006, 05:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-springs fastest alero@Mar 28 2006, 12:28 AM
my trans is now in sc alero's car still being beat up on and holding strong

Quoted post

aheemmm.........kwhauck's car...... :heehee: :heehee:

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

not yours till ya build it

Cliff8928 · 03-30-2006, 03:42 AM

I know a Quaife or Torsen LSD would be nice (I know, I have one in my Beretta). You may be able to get a less expensive clutch-type LSD from engineered performance http://www.engineered.net

I know there's many people who have had good experience with them.

kwhauck · 04-03-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero+Mar 29 2006, 10:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(springs fastest alero @ Mar 29 2006, 10:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Quote:

Originally posted by kwhauck@Mar 28 2006, 05:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-springs fastest alero

Quote:

@Mar 28 2006, 12:28 AM
my trans is now in sc alero's car still being beat up on and holding strong

Quoted post

aheemmm.........kwhauck's car...... :heehee: :heehee:

Quoted post

not yours till ya build it

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

oh i will but does that mean that your car is only 50% yours since other people are building stuff for you and you are putting it all together?

springs fastest alero · 04-05-2006, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kwhauck@Apr 3 2006, 02:51 PM
oh i will but does that mean that your car is only 50% yours since other people are building stuff for you and you are putting it all together?

Quoted post

lol... Motor I'm building, wiring I'm building, gauge cluster I'm building, supercharger kit, I'm building, intercooler I'm building, all the front end work and reinforcement I did, manual coversion you guessed it, only thing I didnt build was the trans but I had to hunt all the parts, supply both tranies and take everything to get cryo hardend.
everyone out sources but I'm still building the car.