Superchargers... Turbo Systems... No2

[natedawg9640]

Just out of curiosity... does anyone around here buy these for thier rides? i've priced it generally but i see very few done... and what is better? obviously runnin nitrous is risky for the engine... but is quite effective... superchargers are 4K at least for what... 40 or 50 HP.... and turbo kits are about the same? what's the deal? anyone have any reviews?

[alero_ecotec]

turbo for ecotec: 2,700
although if you were ambitious you could get a supercharged engine that's in the colbalt SS

2.4L Supercharger - 3,900
turbo - 3,300

3600 V-6 supercharger - 4,700
dont know about turbo's for this,

and dont really know about horsepower for any of them.....if you click the alero upgrades link on the left of the portal page then click the link to your engine you can find more mods.....................but yeah there are a few people who have turbo's on here, i'd talk to turbo-alero i imagine he can answer your questions

[-Alero-]

god i wish i had the ecotec so bad !!!!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[natedawg9640]

what's so good about the ecotec? i don't see it as anything special...

[Fast Eddie]

just aftermarket support nate, and it like a honda engine ;)

The 2.4 S/C can be had for ~2K. Don't know where you all got 4K, (looking for a smiliey doing bong hits...............)

[Spilner521]

most power per dollar: build your own turbo kit. its more efficient than a supercharger, and much more easy to upgrade in the future. but make sure to do a lot of searching and learning before hand if you're actually considering this. you want to do it right the first time. that way you dont blow anything up.

[Vtolds]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@May 2 2005, 02:49 AM
just aftermarket support nate, and it like a honda engine ;)

The 2.4 S/C can be had for ~2K. Don't know where you all got 4K, (looking for a smiliey doing bong hits...............)
Quoted post


where did you see a S/C for $2000.00? the only S/C I have seen is RSM Racings and it is $3500.00 for stage 1 and they dont list the price for Stage 2.

[kwhauck]

3400 v6 turbo - $1500-4000

100+ horsepower gain (HP kit dynoed @ 264 hp and 284 tq @ 9psi (wheel hp and tq))

[sc/alero]

i got roughly 70 hp out of the S/C kit. but with my mods i have roughly 289 to the ground

[alerored04]

if you have the 3400 and are not sure about some stuff DIY talk to germ since you are in wisconsin its not too far to minneapolis where he is at. he has got a turbo 3400 in his monte and i believe that he may be building a kit for the alero. anyway good luck.

[Oldsman]

Originally posted by VTOLDS+May 2 2005, 06:20 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VTOLDS @ May 2 2005, 06:20 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Fast Eddie@May 2 2005, 02:49 AM
just aftermarket support nate, and it like a honda engine ;)

The 2.4 S/C can be had for ~2K. Don't know where you all got 4K, (looking for a smiliey doing bong hits...............)
Quoted post


where did you see a S/C for $2000.00? the only S/C I have seen is RSM Racings and it is $3500.00 for stage 1 and they dont list the price for Stage 2.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]


Gm S/C = $1995.00 thru GM

[alero_ecotec]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@May 2 2005, 01:49 AM
just aftermarket support nate, and it like a honda engine ;)

The 2.4 S/C can be had for ~2K. Don't know where you all got 4K, (looking for a smiliey doing bong hits...............)
Quoted post



got it off the all upgrades page on the portal, then clicked the2.4 L page

[FantomForceCustoms02]

Originally posted by alero_ecotec@May 2 2005, 12:00 AM
turbo for ecotec: 2,700
although if you were ambitious you could get a supercharged engine that's in the colbalt SS




Where did you find this turbo for the ecotec? Or is that how much it will cost if you build your own?

[germ]

as mentioned before, if your wanting to turbo, i can help out.

im basically offering free install for the first alero to purchase the "kit" i want to make for you guys.

the basic setup will be less than $2000 and will gain you around ~250-275 HP at the wheels for a "stage 1"

the "stage 2" is a little more complex and offers more power (around 300+ WHP) and costs roughly $2400

the "stage 3" is all the "extra" stuff you would want to do to the 3400 to hold a lot of power. pistons, head work, intakes, copper gaskets, o ring the block, BIG front mount intercooler, etc.... it should hold 20 psi without a problem and would be around $3300


remember, free install for the first person.


and also keep in mind, when your going for that level of performance, you REALLY must look into tranny work in order to be reliable. the stock tranny would really only hold a stage 1 kit for awhile as long as you dont get on it at every single light/stop sign/off ramp/on ramp, etc.... if you drive with some common sense, you should be able to get a lot of life from the stock tranny (but failures do happen with stock engines, so keep that in mind)

[alero_ecotec]

Originally posted by FantomForceCustoms02+May 2 2005, 01:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FantomForceCustoms02 @ May 2 2005, 01:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-alero_ecotec@May 2 2005, 12:00 AM
turbo for ecotec: 2,700
although if you were ambitious you could get a supercharged engine that's in the colbalt SS




Where did you find this turbo for the ecotec? Or is that how much it will cost if you build your own?
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]


sorry, got it off the all upgrades section ....but when i clicked the link it was dead....you might try gogle though.........but just wait a while, the aftermarket for the eco will be pretty big im assuming since GM is putting versions of the ecotec in just about everything now

[germ]

[quote=FantomForceCustoms02,May 2 2005, 01:49 PM][quote=alero_ecotec,May 2 2005, 12:00 AM]the aftermarket for the eco will be pretty big im assuming since GM is putting versions of the ecotec in just about everything now
Quoted post



lol, dont get your hopes up "to high"

they put the GM 60v6 in a LOT of cars as well and the aftermarket never really came for us.

hopefully GM will do it right this time, cause the ECO engines are very nice and from what i read, they can take a LOT of power on stock internals.

[-Alero-]

Originally posted by germ@May 2 2005, 03:28 PM
as mentioned before, if your wanting to turbo, i can help out.

im basically offering free install for the first alero to purchase the "kit" i want to make for you guys.

the basic setup will be less than $2000 and will gain you around ~250-275 HP at the wheels for a "stage 1"

the "stage 2" is a little more complex and offers more power (around 300+ WHP) and costs roughly $2400

the "stage 3" is all the "extra" stuff you would want to do to the 3400 to hold a lot of power. pistons, head work, intakes, copper gaskets, o ring the block, BIG front mount intercooler, etc.... it should hold 20 psi without a problem and would be around $3300


remember, free install for the first person.


and also keep in mind, when your going for that level of performance, you REALLY must look into tranny work in order to be reliable. the stock tranny would really only hold a stage 1 kit for awhile as long as you dont get on it at every single light/stop sign/off ramp/on ramp, etc.... if you drive with some common sense, you should be able to get a lot of life from the stock tranny (but failures do happen with stock engines, so keep that in mind)
Quoted post


dude i would worship you if you went into making kits for us. i was thinking about air bag suspension but if you can make a custom kit, i'd buy it from you, since your pretty good in the boost section.

also, im thinking about doing that Getrag 287 tranny swap. do you know how to build that tranny up or how much it can handle?

[jlenko]

I've run nitrous on two of my 2.4L's... and this one is soon to be boosted via the GM supercharger ($1999 at www.gmpartsdirect.com, but with $400 shipping... or $2295 at www.paceparts.com.. which is where i got it.. $75 or so shipping)..

I ran a ZEX dry kit #82011 at 85hp... ran 13.8's in my Cavalier Z24.. with 15" Mickey Thompson slicks for traction ;)

Also ran a ZEX wet kit #82021 at 75hp.. never did see the track with that car.

Never blown up... just be careful... and remember an MSD DIS-2 for timing retard :) otherwise, it goes boom.!!

[BLK03GXS]

Yea... youve had really good luck running nitrous on your 2.4s... but then you seem to be smart about it.. ive heard SOO MANNY horror storys about people runing a 50shot on their 2.4 and it blowing up haha

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by -Alero-+May 2 2005, 02:36 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(-Alero- @ May 2 2005, 02:36 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-germ@May 2 2005, 03:28 PM
as mentioned before, if your wanting to turbo, i can help out.

im basically offering free install for the first alero to purchase the "kit" i want to make for you guys.

the basic setup will be less than $2000 and will gain you around ~250-275 HP at the wheels for a "stage 1"

the "stage 2" is a little more complex and offers more power (around 300+ WHP) and costs roughly $2400

the "stage 3" is all the "extra" stuff you would want to do to the 3400 to hold a lot of power. pistons, head work, intakes, copper gaskets, o ring the block, BIG front mount intercooler, etc.... it should hold 20 psi without a problem and would be around $3300


remember, free install for the first person.


and also keep in mind, when your going for that level of performance, you REALLY must look into tranny work in order to be reliable. the stock tranny would really only hold a stage 1 kit for awhile as long as you dont get on it at every single light/stop sign/off ramp/on ramp, etc.... if you drive with some common sense, you should be able to get a lot of life from the stock tranny (but failures do happen with stock engines, so keep that in mind)
Quoted post


dude i would worship you if you went into making kits for us. i was thinking about air bag suspension but if you can make a custom kit, i'd buy it from you, since your pretty good in the boost section.

also, im thinking about doing that Getrag 287 tranny swap. do you know how to build that tranny up or how much it can handle?
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]


Here's the "offical" specs on the getrag trannies (http://www.en.getrag.de/179/179) the 287 is good for about 250 ft/lbs (not NM) w/o constant beating.

First step to building it is an upgraded cluth, cryo the gears, new syncros, how crazy you want to get?? Don't forget your shafts...

[germ]

sorry man i dont know about the manual tranny swap or how to build them up

i havent gotten that far into the manual tranny, i just know about the 4t60e and a LITTLE bit about the 4t40/45's


and yes, i am trying to set something up were i will be able to offer the grand am/alero an cost effective turbo system. with it being cost effective, function is priority over "flare". i will be able to do show winning setups, but thats expensive, and expensive doesnt sell very well with any market. so keep that in mind. if you want super polished or chrome intake piping, stainless piping, etc.... then dont expect to find it for the prices im doing this for.

of course i wont be sending rubber couplers and silicone couplers will be the standard choice, and mild steel is the standard over stainless steel to save on cost, log headers will be done instead of tubular to save cost and room (still better than stock).

rebuilt turbos are NOT an option for me, all prices include a NEW turbo. if you want to save any money, then i COULD do a rebuilt turbo, but i dont take responsibility for any ill effects a used turbo can have and a used/rebuilt turbo will be used only if the buyer requests it, otherwise, its not even considered.


basically what i am saying is that i can tailor make each setup, i just have to have that 1 person to have it done so i can verify what i have now will or will not work on the alero/grand am.

[teebo7]

Hey Germ wanna give ya nothing but props but just curious how you attained the knowledge? school? experience? Would love to even have the knowledge to do something like this...

[germ]

experience and a LOT of reading.

ive joined or lurked quite a few turbo sites, read a few how to books, and have been working with my turbo kit for almost a year now. ive learned by trial and error what works and what doenst work on the 3400 and boost combo.

ive also had the desire to start my own "store" for the 3100/3400 community and offer a PRICE EFFECTIVE option to modding our cars.

when i first started modding, there were a "few" places to get "some" parts. APOC, RSM, and Street Arsenal were them. they all are overpriced for what you get, so i started to do them myself. and with experience on my car and doing a few buddies cars and then branching out and doing other peoples stuff accross the country ive realized that there is enough room in the market to make my stamp on the community and actually offer AFFORDABLE upgrades.

this is how i look at it, there are not enough fast 3100/3400's out there. the only way we are going to get more of us is to drive prices down in the market.

just wait until my store opens up in the next few weeks, not only will you see a HUGE savings in what i offer, but there will be no fluff in my store.

if you like saving money like i do, then i can help you out. if you want to spend a butt load of more money on the same/similar parts, thats ok to, im here to help out those that dont have the money to spend $900+ on a set of hand ported heads, or $300+ for a set of hand ported intakes, or $150+ for a polished TB that retains stock mm's.

once i get the site up and running and unveil it to the 3100/3400 community you will see how much of a price savings you can get with me and my products. i like making money as much as the next person, but i dont want to rob anyone of their hard earned money.

[teebo7]

any thoughts on doing some work for the 2.4's or 2.2's??

[germ]

there is actually another alero guy that i am working with that is wanting to do some 4cyl work for you guys as well. he is trying to design a cost effective turbo kit for you guys and i am kinda helping him with the design and details of a kit. once a final production model is set up, it should be something that makes it to the store, but its not something i personally have plans for, but it is something that is "on the table" as for options to branch out to.

[-Alero-]

well i wouldnt worry about the non show quality parts, because ive gotten pretty good at polishing things. also people can always buy some sort of other connectors or couplers of thier choice. the only thing i would be worried about is the log headers :( . but o well, perhaps you could take some TOG headers or S&S headers and chop them up?

[teebo7]

not that i'm in a hurry or anything but what's the time frame looking like?

[germ]

Originally posted by -Alero-+May 3 2005, 03:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(-Alero- @ May 3 2005, 03:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>well i wouldnt worry about the non show quality parts, because ive gotten pretty good at polishing things. also people can always buy some sort of other connectors or couplers of thier choice. the only thing i would be worried about is the log headers :( . but o well, perhaps you could take some TOG headers or S&S headers and chop them up?
Quoted post
[/b]

the problem with that is the $700 charge for headers and the rear wont even work out for a turbo setup (nicely anyway).

the difference between a set of log turbo headers and a set of tubular turbo headers are maybe 10 hp, which can be made up by adding ~1 psi of boost.

the log headers that i will be making will be a MAJOR improvement over the stock manifolds.

when i get home tonight from work, i will post a picture of the design that im using.

the connectors/couples will be silicone and will not be cheap. there are things you can save money on and some things you cant. rubber vs silicone, there is really only one choice IMO, and thats silicone. i tried using rubber, it just wont work out well enough for me to include it in a kit with my name on it.

as for polishing the stuff, well, if people are wanting show quaility stuff, i can get them started, but thats not what i am trying to provide, i am trying to provide power, not bling. the kit will be nice enough for you to show it off and be proud of what you have and what you have done. and if your into the flashy stuff, you would be amazed at how well painted charge piping looks. but some people will want powdercoating and such, well i can have it done, but its not cheap, neither is polished or stainless steel stuff. but all of that can be done at an addt'l charge, but its not something i want to venture into right now.


<!--QuoteBegin-teebo7@May 3 2005, 04:18 PM
not that i'm in a hurry or anything but what's the time frame looking like?
Quoted post
[/quote]


for the 3400 stuff, hopefully in the next couple of months

for the 4cyl stuff, i have no idea. i know when i spoke with him last time, i think he was starting to get all the stuff put together and measure out the engine bay and design the turbo headers. once he has it on his car or his buddies car is when we will decide on if its really a sellable item.

i would shoot for the end of this racing season. it takes time to work out the bugs on the 1st setup and i want all the bugs gone before i sell anything to anyone.

[-Alero-]

:thumb: :beerchug: gonna be sweet.

also what exactly do log headers look like>?

[germ]

they would look SIMILAR to these....


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/271000-271999/271653_232_full.jpg


*these are not my headers, but they were made for the 3400 engines by someone else (unknown)*

i am currently in the process of locating stainless steel header flanges from a couple machine shops and will be making my set and another set for a beretta owner for his/her turbo project.

[-Alero-]

so explain why you cant make tubular?

[SilverBullet256]

think about the way a tubular would be setup to go out then back around where the turbo would be, these just save alot more room so these would be the best choice, the ones i am making for the eco and 2.4's are called ram horn design which will also save alot of room and honestly look pretty kool in my oppinion

[BLK03GXS]

Well i think hes not gunna make tubular ones becase one they take too much time and money to fab, two, they create xtra surface area, that can lead to higher underhood tempatures, three, they arent worth the effort because there is little to no gain, and four, they are usually not able to withstand the high heat/tempatures of a turbocharged system... inshort they tend to want to melt/warp. where as log style or cast manifolds are less likely to do that...
Correct me if im wrong

[kwhauck]

you are wrong.......it doesn't have to do with the actual horsepower gain of tubular headers vs. log style manifolds.......it has to do with the velocity of the flow into the headers.......which can affect lag time for the turbo and we all know LAG=BAD........that's why i am doing the tubular turbo setup........

[-Alero-]

:cry:

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@May 2 2005, 12:49 AM
just aftermarket support nate, and it like a honda engine ;)

The 2.4 S/C can be had for ~2K. Don't know where you all got 4K, (looking for a smiliey doing bong hits...............)
Quoted post


You asked for it...you got it.....http://img50.echo.cx/img50/5651/bong3xl.gif

[germ]

Originally posted by -Alero-+May 5 2005, 04:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(-Alero- @ May 5 2005, 04:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>so explain why you cant make tubular?
Quoted post
[/b]

read...

Originally posted by SilverBullet256@May 5 2005, 05:01 PM
think about the way a tubular would be setup to go out then back around where the turbo would be, these just save alot more room so these would be the best choice...
Quoted post


and this is what i agree with here....

Originally posted by BLK03GXS@May 5 2005, 05:08 PM
Well i think hes not gunna make tubular ones becase one they take too much time and money to fab, two, ..., three, they arent worth the effort because there is little to no gain, and four, ...Correct me if im wrong
Quoted post




<!--QuoteBegin-turbo-alero@May 5 2005, 05:54 PM
you are wrong.......it doesn't have to do with the actual horsepower gain of tubular headers vs. log style manifolds.......it has to do with the velocity of the flow into the headers.......which can affect lag time for the turbo and we all know LAG=BAD........that's why i am doing the tubular turbo setup........
Quoted post
[/quote]

i could have sworn he was asking me why i didnt want to make the tubular headers....

but anyways...

you spend your money on the log headers, thats cool. but dont be surprised when you dont see the gains you think your going to.

a log manifold will suffice just fine and with the above pictured design.

lag is from to big of a turbo as well. manifold design based on the contraints of space has to find a common ground of give and take.

when you make your tubular manifolds, let me know how the rest of the install goes with the downpipe and available space you have right there around the brake booster and heater core line and fuel lines and tranny and xover and intake pipe and maf and thermostat housing and turbo.


granted the alero has a little more room than the monte in the actual turbo location area, but the downpipe area is the killer.

[Alero04]

Originally posted by natedawg9640@May 2 2005, 01:13 AM
what's so good about the ecotec? i don't see it as anything special...
Quoted post


watch ur mouth!!

[SilverBullet256]

sorry if i said something wrong germ, i was basically trying to say what you told me, they save room, but anyway yeah i dont see why you care all that much anyway, anything is a major improvement over the stock manifolds

[germ]

you didnt say anything wrong, i just quoted you guys just because i didnt want to retype it all out.


and yes, almost anything is better than the stock mani's

[stlalerodude03]

i run nitrous on my alero..3.4...its a 55 shot and have never had proboems with it and i rund 14's all day!